how to be invincible podcast

Isabella Liu  

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the How To Be Invincible podcast. This is Episode Seven, with my spirituality mentor, john Richards. He is an amazing, amazing individual. I feel like I won't do him justice by introducing him. So I would love to, you know, hear a bit about you your story and just, you know how you self identify and kind of get started from that.

John Richards  

Okay, well, I think we met, like I meet almost everyone that I work with, through just a totally bizarre and unexpected series of circumstances. So it was a miracle really wasn't it that we got in contact? If I look back and think about, you know, my son said, like, what was I doing today? And I tell him about the podcast. And he said, Oh, who's Bella? And I think like, how do we know each other because it's just amazing the way that it worked out. But I did a podcast a few months ago for a guy called Colin Dingelstad, I think his name is and he runs an online community. And through that, I think you had commented on that on that particular podcast, and then we sort of just got got in contact online. So since then, we've had loads of contact, and you've been a real help to me, you've taught me a lot of things about about the online world, because I don't really do anything online. And I don't know a lot about social media, I do a minimum. And I don't really understand that world very much so. And so my background is that I was brought up in the community. And my parents have a very, very strong faith. And they were those people in the 70s, who sort of gave up their jobs and their careers in their house and moved into the countryside and then got involved in a community of like minded people who really wanted to help people. So from my childhood, I have an older sister and a younger sister, I lived in an open house community. So I don't have any memory in my childhood of sort of just being with my family, we were so blessed, because we had people from living, living all over the world would come and stay with us. And my parents would just look after them. So my mum is a TOEFL teacher. And she, my parents have a habit of finding someone, and then just saying to them, come and live with us, come and live with us. And we'll look after you. So my childhood was community. So I always say that, because anything that I've been able to do, since in terms of some of the limited stuff I've done, I haven't been able to do anything like the level to my parents, but I look back. And I just think that I was so blessed. And life was so gracious to me, because I was brought up in a community that prepared me for some of the things I'm doing now. And then when I was 16, I moved abroad. And I went from being like in a comprehensive where I was into drugs, and fighting and football and all of those types of things. I moved to the oldest British school in Europe, which is in North Portugal, right on a coastline in a beautiful part of the world. And so then I was in a community and with like, 16, I think it was like 16 different nationalities in my class. So a huge amount of people from all around the world. And I had two years in that community. And between the age of 16 1718, I grew up in that community. So that was an incredibly formative time of life, because your age between 16 1718 where you transition from your teenage independence into the responsibilities of adult who's really, really important. And when we work with people on their life journey that has a huge impact that season in their life. So for me, I was really blessed. I met some amazing people over there, and then came back to the UK and I did a degree in creative writing and English Lit. But really since then, I'm 40 goodness, last week I was my son reminds me I'm a I'm a middle aged man. Now I'm 44 Bella. Last week, I was 44. And so for really nearly all of my life, I've worked in two areas, really I work in homelessness, and I work in crisis intervention. So I've been involved in setting up and running communities for very severely abused people in crisis. Most of our clients are 16 to 25. So people have just stopped key key time in their life, where they're moving into adulthood. And what we do is that we have residential communities that we move on, oh boy, young people into her street homeless, or who were in very severely abused backgrounds or her maybe living in a very abusive situation, we move them into a community and then my wonderful team, nurture them and look after them, and cook with them and support them and listen to them and build a home for them, where they can stay for weeks, months, years, sometimes two or three years. And we try to bring about healing for them. And so I've done that for 20 years. And alongside that I A few years ago, I met some wonderful people. One who's a guy called Neil Lawton, who is a special forces captain and someone who's a real adventurer and explorer and then Angus Wingfield who works in conservation in Africa. We set up a project together called the inspiration programme. And I run the development side of that, and, and the sort of spirituality side of that. And they run the adventure of conservation. And we take people into very remote parts of the world, and link them with amazing people and communities and take them right out into the wild. And do, I guess you would say, a kind of retreat with them. So just give them opportunity to think and to stop and to be away from business. So, for example, last year, we went right up into the Himalayas. And, and we, we co led the first step of a Sherpa and led retreat in the MLS, that hasn't happened in history, because the Sherpas normally would just carry people's bags and take the risk. And when I went over there and spent some time in in Tibet and met the Sherpas, I thought these people are so far beyond in their spirituality and understanding anything that we understand in the West. So if I brought clients over wood, they share a retreat and would speak to our clients. And so we take business people and individuals and business owners out into the MLS. And then we have a Private Game Reserve in Africa that we take people out to and get people out on safari into the wild, just to kind of think. So those are two things I do. And the third thing I do, which I guess I've done with you is that I do one to one work with people, I don't do any therapy. I'm not a therapist, I don't do any coaching. And I tend to work with people's subconscious and with their dreams. So 99% of what I do is dream interpretation. So I start working with someone like I did with you. And I trigger a process in their subconscious I tried to. And then like I said to you, when you start having the dreams, please contact me and you laughed slightly, nervously. And then a few weeks later, you contacted me and said, John, I've had this amazing dream.

Isabella Liu  

Amazing, it was crazy. Yes.

John Richards  

So yes. I tend to do dream work with people in different parts of the world. And I guess that's how we met. So working with people strange is the greatest joy of all, because if you're coaching people, or if you're training people, or if you're a therapeutic person, you rely on your ability, and you rely on your training, and you rely on your propensity to babysit, be able to change behaviour and inculcate behaviours in people. But when you do dream work, you and I, we rely on grace, we rely on being helped. And we both approach the process is it being a mystery, and we stumble forward curiously together through the wilderness of your dreams, and we trust that we will be helped. And that tends to be the work that inspires and motivates me, I'm a terrible coach. I'm a terrible therapist, because I just talked about myself all the time. through me, so that's kind of a bit of background to me.

Unknown Speaker  

Yeah, that's so amazing. Like this is maybe the third or fourth or fifth time I've heard a story and I still can't get enough. And there's always these beautiful nuggets like you have the such rich history. And there's so many things you say, and so many parts of your story have just stayed with me for the last couple of months. So yeah, just to share with our listeners, we did meet a few months ago, I think it was in end of August. So eight, it's about four months now. And we kind of started these regular chats. Like maybe weekly these days, it's more like catch ups maybe monthly. But it's just been such a great experience knowing you. And john really helped me out of a very, very dark pit that I was in. If you tuned into last episode with Ruby, right before kind of work, meeting john and working on Ruby and all this great stuff that kind of came up in my life I was doing. I was doing really well kind of financially and business in the business sense. But I completely lost myself in a spiritual sense. I didn't know why I was doing what I was doing anymore. And I felt like there was just more to life, but I couldn't see the answer until until I listened to john and john was just this amazing beacon of light for me. And through working with john. It changed my entire trajectory of my life. I really, really learned so much that there are all these key pieces throughout the journey. You know, he asked me questions like if three to five years from now if you look at yourself in the mirror, will you be proud of the person looking back at you and that's one thing that you know, I asked a lot of people in my life and I really reflect on every you know, every few weeks and try to process and integrate and really, like be proud of the person I am constantly and and it's just yeah I love what you say about feeling blessed and and you know, really trusting and being able to let go and all of these lessons are just so wonderful that I've really kind of come to love and accept and and like the importance of community and there's just so many beautiful lessons out of the words you use. Speak and you're so humble, as long as like, you know, something that I really learned from you was how important how socialism what a humility is and and something that, you know, will never will never go away. For me. It's just like really sticking to my humility. And I'd love to kind of share more of your thoughts around your philosophy around AI and that kind of aspect of it, too.

John Richards  

Yeah, I mean, always, like, it's really so lovely for me to hear you talking. But you know, whenever I hear one of my clients talk in the way that you've just taught, I always think and feel the same thing. I think these people say these really lovely things about how you've helped them, why can't you help yourself? Why do you struggle so much in your own life? And I think that, like for me, it's such a strange kind of conundrum that we can be wounded healers. So there are things that you describe having happened that I've kind of helped you with that I am still struggling with myself. And one of my great heroes is someone called gobble natto. And he tells this really funny story, how I think he got up some Do you know, Gabor Mattei, he talks about trauma and addiction. He said, he's a really amazing kind of person. And he's really world famous in, in, in recovery. And in that kind of sphere. He's a really famous Canadian, I think he's like a doctor excited, so characterise, but he says, sometimes he I think he says something like sometimes he gets off like one of his calls where he's been talking to people about all this amazing spirituality. And his wife very gently says to him, do you think maybe you could apply some of it to your own life? And

I think, you know, you say that I'm humble as a person. So let me tell you a few things that I have come to understand about my own life. So when I talk about my work and my opinions, I am quite an opinionated person, I think. And I just have to say, when I talk about these things, you should weigh them. Because I don't know that I'm right. But I'm really passionate about thinking and exploring. So I will say things forcefully. But it's possible that me and you in five years time could be sitting on some crazy beach in Thailand, and watch this interview. And we could both go, What an idiot you talking about? Because the truth is that we're always changing and growing. And so I try to live in the tension of confidence, and being strong and committed to what I believe and that drives me. And engines me forward draws me forward, I should say. But I try at the same time to be curious and to recognise that I don't know Bella, like when I met you, I don't know how to help you. I'm not a coach. I'm not. I'm not a therapist, I don't have this whole range of skills that I want to impart. What I said to you, in the beginning, beginning was that I'm willing to listen to you. And let's listen together. Let's listen together to what comes out of your heart. And when you work with street homeless people for as long as I have, I've spent hundreds of 1000s of hours working with people talking about trauma. And you know, when you work with people who are poor in spirit, you know, the first thing Jesus says, He says, bless to you when you're poor in spirit. And in our modern culture, if you go online, you don't hear anyone who's poor in spirit. You hear people are bigging themselves up and bigging up their own image. And the thing is about being poor in spirit, it's just willingness to be who you really are to be humble. And when you work with people who are homeless or have been through suffering or addiction, the great advantage that they have is that life has allowed them to see themselves for who they really are. So they're not able to pick themselves up. They don't have a multimillion pound company or a huge Bentley, they have to be who they really are. And the huge blessing of working with those people is that you do real work and you learn about yourself. And you learn that you're just like them. And I have had hundreds of experiences where in the morning I was in the homeless project. And in the afternoon or evening, I was talking to a CEO sometimes in London at a conference with multi multi millionaires. And what I noticed one to one is that the homeless young woman on the seafront wondering whether or not she will be able to care for the baby that she's bearing has exactly the same problems and issues is the man who's worth 500 million pounds in Mayfair in the evening who I meet with and speak to, in loneliness, loneliness and uncertainty about identity and anxiety and difficulty and that route. One of the tragedies about the modern world is that our desire for wealth and success has separated us. And in order for us to be healed and to be whole. We have to understand that everything is connected and one of the Things that what's happening with pandemic is nature attempting to whisper to us that everything is connected, and the way that you treat one another, your communities, your environment, what you do in a particular part of the world, will affect you in another part of the world. So I'm interested in integration and kind of connection between people. And when you ask about humility, there's few things that I'm certain of, in my work, my work is mostly mysterious, I don't understand it. Most of my daily work is me stumbling forward in the dark, and falling on my face and doing talks about these deep spiritual subjects. And then, on the way home, having terrible road rage and swearing at an old lady trying to get out in front of me.

There's one thing I'm certain. There's one thing I'm certain of, and it's this, it's that there's only two ways to live your life. Either you can live a delusional life, or you can live a humble life. There's no middle ground. People who aren't humble are just delusional. They live in delusion.

Isabella Liu  

Oh my God.

John Richards  

The truth is that the truth is that the only way to escape your delusions is through recognising who you are, and recognising that you should be humble and you should be broken in spirit, and you should recognise who you really are. And I've worked with very well known successful people with stacks of money and success. I've never ever seen a human suffering from anxiety or depression or in crisis in their life. That wasn't the exact result of them believing delusions about themselves, being locked into delusion. And in this generation, we worship image, we worship delusion. So think about the fact that in this generation, what's the highest thing that you can aspire to, if you look at who are the people who are treated in our community as gods, they are the Leonardo DiCaprio, or the Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie's. And think about what we're doing as a community, the highest award that we can give an Oscar for acting. Isn't it fascinating that in our generation, that we say that the highest thing you can aspire to is that you were the human who was best this year, pretending to be someone else. You were the human this year who was bound to be someone else. We worship fantasy, and delusion because we're afraid of who we really are. And the way to peace and joy to live a life of suffering and joy, where you recognise the suffering, and you allow the suffering to cut a channel into your Spirit through which you can channel and feel joy is to face your delusions, to face your delusions. And if you do that, you'll find the grace of life, making you humble and making you realise that humility is simply just seeing yourself as you really are, without having to puff yourself up without having to be certain about your opinions. So can I carry on and say one more thing?

Isabella Liu  

Because it's just so amazing. Yeah.

John Richards  

If we, if we talk about what's happening in the world today is that in in ancient times that the devil the dark force was very often called Have you heard of the word Diablo? Diablo?

Isabella Liu  

Yeah.

John Richards  

Diablo is a synonym. It's a is an expression for some speaking metaphorically. Okay. So. So the demonic the dark was called diabolical, from the word diabolical. And the word die of Berlin means to separate. So what Olden cultures knew was the one who separates should be feared, the darkness in your mind, and your heart is the one who separates Now, one of the things you'll notice is happening in the world today, through things like Brexit, and through things like American politics, Trump and other people through things like COVID is that our generation, my son's generation is growing in a world where people are increasingly separated. It's what we call the spirit of diabolo. It's the spirit that separates people. So an issue is dropped into the into a culture, Brexit or or Donald Trump or COVID. And if you go on social media, or you read the papers, what you'll find is that the humans are all certain that they're right about their take on the issue. So on one side, you have a whole lot of people who are certain, and on another side, you have a whole lot of people who are certain, and neither of those groups will budge. And what that's doing to our culture in these last years is that it's bringing Terrible, terrible separation. And the opposite in ancient times to, to die Oberlin, which was the spirit of separation, which is what we're seeing now was the word symbolism to symbolise, which means to integrate, which means to bring together. And if you look at my own country, let me give you an example. In my own country. Imagine if when the debate for Brexit had come up, come come up, you had a whole lot of people in leadership saying, look, here's the truth. Let's start this process being humble. We don't know In truth, what is best for the UK, we don't know. We can lie and pretend we do. We can be certain in our delusion that we know what is right. Or we can start this process that's so crucial for our country, from a place of humility and saying, look, we don't know what is the right outcome. But if we are symbolised if we're integrated, if we work together as a community, whether we get the final decision right or wrong, we will be okay. Because we are blessed, and will be humbled as a nation. In fact, the opposite that's what would happen in tribes in the tribe. In fact, in our modern cultures, what happens a symbol is dropped, issue is dropped into culture. And immediately the two sides get taken up, people are certain that Brexit is the right thing, and people are certain that it's the wrong thing. And they think that the issue they're facing has something to do with Brexit, and has something to do with the European Union, because spiritually, their eyes are closed. And they don't recognise that what is facing the humans in this these next 50 years is the issue of dire bollin is the issue of separation of communities all over the world through wealth through social media, and through issues in their own certainty, that lack of any understanding of humility, communities are being separated and separated and separated. And the impact on individuals mental health and wellness is absolutely catastrophic. And you know, when I go up into the Himalayas, into the mountains, and I work with people in those communities and talk to those people, there is no diabolique that is just symbolising various togetherness, there is community, they have so little, all of the children are smiling and happy. They're not covetous, they're not certain that they're right. They live in a context of wholeness with nature, and their community keeps them humble. So I don't know that I'm right about what I've just said. But it's what I'm thinking about at the moment. And that's what I'm trying to grapple with. So in my life,

I aspire to be a more spiritual person, what does it mean to be a spiritual person? What's the difference between pursuing spirituality and pursuing success and pursuing and being a politically minded person, there's only one difference. The way that we're conditioned in our modern culture is that we have these very, very strong views about what other people should do, and what the world should do and what communities should do. Like I've just been saying, that's the broken side of me. But to be truly spiritual, I think is that I should be overly concerned about what it is that I should do. How should I be symbolised and humble, and community minded in my relationship with my beloved son? How should I negotiate the path of forgiveness with my ex wife? How should I with the people I find difficult in my life? How should I be humble, and be learning and be curious? And that's really the challenge for me, I can get on a call like this, and I can talk about my opinions. And people can say, Wow, some of that's interesting, but that's not being spiritual. Being spiritual is the way I speak to my son. It's giving away a 10th of my money. It's in my own life, honouring my parents and seeking the work of forgiveness and grace and mercy in my own heart. And in that area, I am far, far, far from being where I should be and where I want to be. I'm in the process of struggle. And for all of us, it's in that struggle, where I hope that we can stay humble, because anyone can get online and say clever things. But few people can really love their friends or their partner. Few people can really love run a business in a way that is not pursuing after success. But that is pursuing after fruitfulness. And the great joy in life is to make your life fruitful, to give up your pursuit of success or image, but to find that when you look back over the years that your life is measured in fruitfulness in the amount that it's been able to add to other people's story, and those To the things we talked about in our chords when we when we met. So that's what I am thinking about. That's

Isabella Liu  

cool. So cool. Um, wow,that's my brains like, Whoa, this is great. I'm like, I started getting my notebook out writing notes. And I just want to note for the listeners too, like, I hear my heart beating, it's like really intense. It's just really cool. What you said just now the last point, it made me think of just taking responsibility for your own life and living just very intuitively, and that's something that I've been really grappling with, and really, you know, working through and just like, like working to practice every day, just being super intentional and, and, like, never regret a single decision I make in my life nowadays, because I'm always doing what feels the best for my soul. And what I know at that point is the is the best decision that I can make with the information that I have to like, in that moment. So no matter what, like, everything's gonna be okay, and no matter what, like, I'm going to be ready to I'm going to be ready with whatever, like life throws at me, and I'm going to, you know, no matter what happens to me, that's what I meant to go through and kind of to get to my next point, and just having this complete faith and this complete trust in the universe, it's, it's really something magical. And, you know, it's like these things, like, you know, things like soulmates things like magic, like I was always like, yeah, sure, you know, that's not real, but I see magic every day. Nowadays, like, just in the rainbows from from the glass and the sun. And just like these, these beautiful, magical moments, you know, I'm so grateful for everything in life, like, everything feels like a bonus upon a bonus upon a bonus, like, I take a step. Or, like I see the ray or I see the stars, or any little thing just feels so magical. And I think that's something like seeing that magic in everyday life. Like it's always been there. And I feel like I've been a positive person throughout my life, but really, truly, like assessing it and, and being just feeling so strongly a part of like this universe, and, and the university and community and like all souls all connected all this, like, kind of deep spiritual work of like, like, I love suffering now, because I know that it's so important to go through. And I've been able to find so much joy in the suffering as much as you know, going through the suffering to experience the joy. Like, there's just so many lessons that, you know, I used to think, how does it work? Like, how does everything fit together? And these days, it just feels like, yeah, I feel so supported, I feel so supported in everything I want to achieve. And everything kind of just makes sense. And it's a bit it's a bit like it was freaky, but it's just actually, like, such a wonderful journey. It's been with you and, and I think it will continue to be just to, for me, at least like to help make the world a better place. And, and yeah, I'm just so so grateful to have met you pretty much like it's just been this, this wonderful experience. And yeah, I can't, I can't wait for I can't wait for your message to be out there more like, you know, depending on on you as well. But for everyone listening, john has this beautiful talk, which is the four stages of spiritual growth and I'll link it in the notes and everywhere on social medias as well. It's just this wonderful actually read listen to it this morning. And there are so many things that came up again for me because I've probably listened to it two or three times before, but I really haven't listened to it in the last couple months. And so much new information came up for me because you know, like you're in a different place. You're constantly growing and changing as he said. And you know, I think about how it applies to my friends and my family and my friends I've become family and and i think about how it can help them and where people are at in, in my life and their life. And you know how, how I can help everyone around me and it's just as beautiful talk. It's about 30 ish minutes, I think and it really goes through a big part of kind of a big journey, I guess of what john does with his clients but also like what he believes about spiritual growth and no matter where you're at in your life, It really touches on so many, so many key topics that will help you and and it is a process. So it's kind of normal to go back and forth between the stages and, and really, you know, keep figuring things out. But it's just a really, really wonderful talk that I would definitely suggest to everyone listening here today. 

John Richards  

Thank you. Thank you, Bella, so much. And just before we close, could I just say one, one little thing, because something was so important. 

Isabella Liu  

Of course.

John Richards  

You said something so, so precious. And it's lovely for me to hear some of the things you're feeding back that you that you talk about now that I remember, it's talking about an office cause that we kind of worked on, and you hit some themes that I work with, with myself on daily, I tried to work on myself though I'm by far my most difficult and awkward and arrogant and obnoxious client. I keep I keep slugging away at my fat head. But one thing that's really interesting is that what you what you find that people are struggling with, generally in our culture is, is an illusion. And the illusion is that they can inculcate themselves underneath the ties themselves from suffering. And when you talk to someone, if I talk to my client about suffering in the West, and in our modern culture, now, this isn't true in other parts of the world I go to, but in our culture, it's always the same when someone tells me about their suffering. What I what I've noticed is that what they mean is that whenever they're not in control, whenever they're not in control, that is what represent suffering to people, they're coming down with their issues, and they'll come and tell me their problems. And one of the things that I found so fascinating is that just to go back to the delusion. metaphor, we talked about that either we can be delusion or humble, and being humble makes life a lot easier is that a lot of people I've noticed, particularly when I work with very successful, very wealthy people, they seem to have been a needs to ties from suffering through their money. And they've got lots of money. And so that buys them more and more and more and more control. And they think that that will make them happier. But in fact, they're climbing higher and higher on the ladder. And when they look down, they have vertigo, because they're not really growing in their heart. And in their spirit. They're just growing more successful, and they're being able to insulate themselves from suffering. And the really interesting thing is that life becomes so much easier when we recognise that there are many things in life that are uncertain what's happened to the world and to the economy in the last year, it's been uncertain, but what you can absolutely count on, if you're going to live and run a business or get married or have children, what you can count on, if you're going to do anything of worth is suffering, suffering, you can count on suffering, and what you notice about people and I'm going to quote AI, which is the most important spiritual mechanism that exists in all of Western culture, the mechanism that's most important through which God is working the most is that is a community without any question. But the what what they would say and I and what you would find is true in your life and in my life is that suffering will do two things to a human heart, either I will become better, or I will become better. Either your suffering will make you bitter, and you'll be angry that your business isn't successful, you'll be angry about your health, that it's not working for you, you'll be angry about what's going on in your relationship. Or you will recognise that part of your nature is someone who has the propensity to grow. And I have never once ever, in 1000s of hours of working with the the most diverse range of humans ever once heard a human tell me that they grew through success, ever, never through blessings. Every millimetre of human growth comes from the human who in their suffering says, I feel like I want to be better. But I will choose to allow this to make me broken and humble. And I want to become I want to become better. I don't want to be a better person. And you know I've worked with some very, very severely ill people I've worked with very violent predatory schedule one sex offenders I've worked with people face to face. I've spent hours talking to some of the most evil people in our community. And you know, when you work with those people, and you hear their childhood and their story, what defines them and what has led them to do the awful things they've done is that their suffering has just made them better and isolated, and they're full of bitterness. And for every time you let your suffering make you angry and bitter at the world or the person you give the darkest side of yourself Power, it will quietly grow within you. And every time your suffering in your life makes you get on your knees, and makes you think reflectively and makes you think, how can I allow this experience to break up my certainty and to change me, you grow in your spirit. And you talked about the experience of becoming aware of beauty and nature. I work with people all the time, I've got so much money on wealth, and yet have no joy in their life. And I used to say to you when we met, wouldn't it be wonderful if you can begin to feel joy, and I said, here's the problem. narrow is the way what's the door to seeing glory, in life and joy, it's accepting the fellowship of your suffering. It's allowing yourself to let go of control, and take in mystery, and to recognise that the great project of your life is not what's happening in your community or in politics, the great call of your life is to allow the suffering and experiences you have to allow you to become broken and humble. And in your humility and your curiosity. And you're searching, you will become fruitful, your life will begin to grow and become like a field. And you'll become like a great tree that grows up and its branches spread wide, and you'll provide shade and fruit. But the only way you can be that great tree is if you allow your branches to go deep into the deep into the spirit realm. And the the roots only go deep through suffering. Yes, excess makes a tree deeply rooted. It's suffering. So thank you so much for talking to me. And it's a huge privilege for me. I don't do any interviews, as you know, and I don't do any podcasts I've only ever done two in my life and I was manipulated cleverly into both of those no I'm joking the two that I've done I did because I love them. I care about the people and but for me, it's a real privilege to be on your on your podcast. And so am I allowed to go back to my paddleboarding? Now?

Isabella Liu

Yes, yes. John lives so close to the beach, and he spends a beautiful amount of time out of body and it's just wonderful. Thank you so much, john, I really love those last comments. It just reminds me of just really going into Shadow Work, being free and being detached. And that kind of being the true, the true key to like living a happy life endlessly. And, and that's just, yeah, it's just so beautiful that those people like you on this, to share the message. And I really hope that I'm able to do that in my own way as well. So thank you so much. Thank you so much.

John Richards  

Yes, just remember that you'll send me the audio file of this. I'll listen back. And at times, I think, oh, you said some good stuff there. But the overwhelming response I will have is you need to get what you're doing all that cool crap in your own life. So I just want to be crystal clear about that. If you get that wrong in your work, you'll never be fruitful. The key for all of us, being really fruitful is recognising that we need our own. We need our own health we need Yeah, we need forgiveness for me in my life. I need the grace and the mercy of a loving God, who cares for me and who will bring me through all of my clever thoughts. Am I speaking sounds great to other people. But it won't make me a good dad to my son. It won't be a good partner to my to my girlfriend, and it certainly won't help my business. As you know, I'm the worst businessman he's ever lived so you could have a business and bless you.

Isabella Liu

Okay, thank you so much, john. I could keep talking forever, so. Yes. So we'll cut it off, but really, really great. Yeah, and we'll chat soon. Okay, bye.

John Richards  

Bye, sweetie.